Discussion on Projects

[hallsofvallhalla]

I like so many here have a very hard time sticking with one project all the way through. Oh wait you guys already knew that
I have analyzed this up, down, left , right and every direction in between. I guess its just my want to learn something new or maybe when I go into a project I have a set way I want the project to turn out and then when I hit engine limitations I alter the project so much it turns out to not be what I originally wanted.
It is only in Game Development that I have this issue. Kinda weird. I honestly feel like I have forsaken my own dream of Forsaken Sanctum by giving up. I told myself there was no real engine out there that fit my vision but maybe that is me being selfish. Maybe I should force myself to settle for a bit less so at least it can be played. Who knows. I am sitting everything on the back burner for the next few weeks while I finish Indie-Resource gold but I must fill this black void of depression that rots the creative air of my imagination. I feel like I should have a full game released right now. Maybe it''s all been a build up so when O do release something I will understand players more or maybe I just have screwed myself over.
I know one thing I am sick of this nasty feeling I get when I am trying to figure out what engine to use, what type of game, 2d, 3d, mmo, single player, ect. Its like 1 million raging blind men swinging swords in my mind. They are battling to the death but know one knows who is fighting for who or who is killing who. The winner is last man standing but did he win? He is still blind in a world of dead blind men. I have analyzed the options of games I WANT to make but how will I know if I choose a route that I will see it to the end?

2d MMORPG - Yeah we have all thought about using eclipse or player worlds and to be honest I have done some things with the source of those engines that could really make it a unique awesome game. There is only 2 things that stop me from doing this,
Art - I stink at 2d art....plain and simple.....I do have some inovative ideas on how to make it great it would be very time consuming.
Players - Who would play? How many of you would download a 200 meg client to play a 2d mmorpg? How long would you play?

3d MMORPG - Using a engine like RC would I expect many players? I see and hear a lot of, "oh you are using RC huh?" It is hard to break the mold of RC and Solstar only makes that harder. You are talking about a lot of work put in to not know if any issues will be supported or not knowing if you will ever be able to get and keep players. What about TMMOKIT? Well lets face it. Without serious problem solving and weeks of coding you are going to have to use TGE. It is very outdated and even then there are some underlying issues. The TGEA version and the T3D version still have issues and still need some work. Not only that how will I support the server? Someone like me who will most likely work on this thing alone has no chance of making this game a big hit. Sure I might get a hundred or so players maybe more but will that be enough to support the servers and all my time I will have to invest in it? Hardly. I can't expect to charge very much for a game made RC, nor could I expect to charge much for a game made with the MMOKIT with my current skill set. I see no point in the Massive for indie's like me who just want to show off a world and a game and not make a million bucks.

3d RPG/FPS - While this sounds fun and very doable, especially with UDK I wonder on the player base. Many people will play once or play it through once then quit and you will never hear from them again. While I guess that's the nature of games that leads me to a hidden want, a community. I guess I want a community to follow my game and ask for new things and talk about their explorations.

It's a crazy world for indie's right now. I guess one needs to just grab a hold of a dream and not let go till its finished. Sadly I am still swinging blindly fighting a unseen enemy.

[OldRod]

I have had most of the same thoughts as you, Halls. Every project I've worked on so far has ended in frustration as I realize I am trying to do more than the engine/tech will allow me to do and I end up changing the project to match the engine, rather than the other way around (for one thing I'm not talented enough to make the engine do what I want).

I don't know the answer... if I did, I'd do it

For now, I'm still working on my Browser RPG, studying JS/Ajax, trying to make it what I want it to be... but it's slow. I'm also tinkering with Unity, hoping I can do something with it, and there's still T3D sitting on my hard drive un-used (along with TGE, TGEA, et al)

The only way I feel I can ever create the game that I want to create is to write an engine from scratch, with all the tools and supporting architecture that goes with it. And that's just something I am not talented enough to do - nowhere near it.

Maybe we're being over-ambitious. Maybe we have Attention Deficit Disorder when it comes to this I don't really know. But believe me, I share your frustration

[hallsofvallhalla]

well there is comfort knowing it is just not me. It seems every couple months I go through this continual cycle. I search hard for a engine. Trouble myself and depress myself looking for my next project. I finally come up with this big idea, fins a engine to suit it, work on it for a couple months, realize it is not what I expected, drop the project, and start the whole cycle over again.

I am truly sick of it. I think a cure maybe picking something less flashy, less exciting, and less feature filled and just seeing it to the end. Maybe I will get more players than I think I will? One project I have had in the back of my head for so long was to use Eclipse and make a 2d mmorpg. I always scare myself from the fear of not attracting players. I have the know how of VB6 to add some wild features and fun levels and playability but I just keep stopping myself due to the graphics and appeal. Maybe I should just go for it, maybe I shouldn't , maybe it will end in the same dreadful fate.


Ugh!!

[SpiritWebb]

Its hard to stick with a project all the way through when its just you working on it. But even if you suck at doing certain things, you find pieces online to fill those gaps you suck at temporarily (as placeholders) until a later point when either you can do them, or find someone who can. I have placeholders all over UO because I don't know how to model. (The player came from a tutorial, the phase gate was put together real quick with no textures, everything else was part of Unity).

All of us go into a project having a set way of wanting to do things, but as we progress we realize that maybe what we wanted to do either wont work, so we find a way around it, or we just haven't figured out a way to make it happen, either way you keep moving on. Every game out there, at some point or another was a dream for someone and in the end, may not exactly be what they had envisioned, but ended up with something a lot better then originally planned.

But then some people/teams they go in with extreme high hopes and when they cannot get it right, it gets crushed so they quit the project they were working on and try again. You have to evolve the game from an idea on paper/computer and go with the flow and it will take time to finish, but see through with it, you might be surprised with the end result rather then what you had originally planned for it.

With UO, I wanted it to be a browser-based game, and now its going to have to be a standalone. Its depressing, but it happens and maybe things will come out even better now then being a browser-based game. We will see...

In closing you have to figure out what engine is best for you, in the project you want to do. I myself suggest Unity, but its whatever YOU want in the end, since its YOUR project. And when you do FINISH it, it might take some time to get the player base set, but once you get those few people who say "man, I just tried this game, you should check it out!" People will flock...

[hallsofvallhalla]

bah i would never be happy using a 2d engine....Must keep looking...

[Jackolantern]

I used to have the same problem. Then I really sat down to think about why I was like that. I realized that I like planning and designing projects a lot more than I like working for months on end doing the "unfun" work to complete them. When a new technology comes along, I make up some excuse for myself as to why there is a road-block on what I am currently doing, and why the new technology/engine would make my life so much easier. But then I go back to designing and thinking up fun concepts again. The end result is several years without very much done.

But I have hopefully ended the cycle now with my PBBG. While I am still only about 25% of the way done with it (if that), the work is much more interesting since I don't have to deal with all of the low-level details that used to kill me. I can add a new feature in one evening instead of a month. I could really go on and on, but the bottom line is that I feel like I am now working on a project I am going to finish

[hallsofvallhalla]

the work is much more interesting since I don't have to deal with all of the low-level details that used to kill me.

that's waht i love about making browser based games!

[towcar]

That is tough, I try to commit to one thing, but maybe I honestly just like trying ideas rather then making them come true?

[hallsofvallhalla]

i guess i should take my own advice and just finish what I have going. Going to finish QOC while working on I-R Gold. Also going through tons of tutorials on the UDK. Seems to be the perfect engine for me for when I am ready to attempt 3d again I have no real interest in making a 3d mmorpg. It is just too much work for all I have going right now and to be truthful when I do get a chance to play games I never play 3d mmorpgs. I am either playing text based games, FPS/RPGs, or Rock band. I played DDO for less than a week and quit.