[quote="PaxBritannia"On a dedicated server, such as iwebs's $49/m budget dedicated server http://iweb.com/dedicated/budget-servers/, I would think you could fit as many people as signed up. (I don't think I will ever need more than 1 dedicated server for a PBBG)[/quote]
If we are being realistic, then yes, it should house as many players as you will ever get. Of course, being realistic is boring, and it is fun to think about having to house 1 million+ players like Torn City lol.
Age of Magic Online
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Jackolantern
- Posts: 10891
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:00 pm
Re: Age of Magic Online
The indelible lord of tl;dr
Re: Age of Magic Online
It really all comes down to having business sense, its good to host your pbbg and .... well thats as far as most go from what I have seen.
If you do a google on the game, your lucky if you find an obscure mention in some forum for most pbbg's. You will need to treat your pbbg as a business, even if you are not planning on having paid features in the early stages.
Marketing : Start a blog about the development, post on as many forums as you can find with your development and progress and when you finally release the game go back and post links. Depending on what your aiming for you could get some ads on google as well.
One of the most effective advertising methods I have seen is having "starter pack giveaways", sites like onrpg.com have these and I always see most keys are gone within a few days or weeks. If 1000 keys are distributed and 20% of those actually like your game you just got 200 players.
Also never underestimate your local press in your Town, Facebook etc.
All the successful games use a combination of the above to sucessfully attract new players. Oh and dont get complacent, you will need to continue using the various methods until your game is where you want it to be.
That all being said, always hold something back. If you release your game dont inculde one or two features on release, keep these for when the subscription rate starts dropping and then start your new advertising campaign based on these faetures. This will also give you time to code new features to be released later.
So to summarise : It is a business, advertise.
I was thinking, maybe there should be a site like onrpg.com but instead of focusing on A grade titles, focus on indie pbbg's. Any opionions?
Edit: I am a beginner when it comes to PHP, but i am not a beginner when it comes to business.
If you do a google on the game, your lucky if you find an obscure mention in some forum for most pbbg's. You will need to treat your pbbg as a business, even if you are not planning on having paid features in the early stages.
Marketing : Start a blog about the development, post on as many forums as you can find with your development and progress and when you finally release the game go back and post links. Depending on what your aiming for you could get some ads on google as well.
One of the most effective advertising methods I have seen is having "starter pack giveaways", sites like onrpg.com have these and I always see most keys are gone within a few days or weeks. If 1000 keys are distributed and 20% of those actually like your game you just got 200 players.
Also never underestimate your local press in your Town, Facebook etc.
All the successful games use a combination of the above to sucessfully attract new players. Oh and dont get complacent, you will need to continue using the various methods until your game is where you want it to be.
That all being said, always hold something back. If you release your game dont inculde one or two features on release, keep these for when the subscription rate starts dropping and then start your new advertising campaign based on these faetures. This will also give you time to code new features to be released later.
So to summarise : It is a business, advertise.
I was thinking, maybe there should be a site like onrpg.com but instead of focusing on A grade titles, focus on indie pbbg's. Any opionions?
Edit: I am a beginner when it comes to PHP, but i am not a beginner when it comes to business.
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PaxBritannia
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:54 pm
Re: Age of Magic Online
Before I write, note that I have read about 20 full books on economics. About 3 were about its application on the internet. Before making games as a hobby, my hobby (as strange as it sounds) was SEO, and market research.
1. Forget about business. Completely. Just ensure that you have the right to use everything on your site for commercial purposes.
Now onto part 2: Getting players
a) When there are 100- players, post exclusively on game development sites.
When 100+, send an email to the top 1,4,5,6 game rating sites asking if they "would like to include" your game in their database.
The key here is to EMAIL them and email them with the right wording:
Correct: Would you like to include *name* into your website? *name* is a recently released free-to-play PBBG which already has *** player online.
Incorret: Could you add us to http://www.*sitename*.com?
b) SEO, too complicated to explain, but make sure your blog is SEOd
For the forums, do not create one until you are 101% sure that there will be at least 5 post per day in it. Else, it actually decreases sign up rates.
c) Create a wikipedia article with a account whose username is NOT related to the game. Do not make it biased, but strictly informational.
wikipedia article = popular game
d) DO NOT USE STARTER GIVEAWAYS, instead, adopt a viral referral system:
Player A = refferer
Player B = New player
Z = *I will explain later*
e.g. When B signs up using A's code, B gets a prize. If B signs up before the end of Z days of A signing up, then A gets another prize. If B is still player a week later, A gets a bigger prize.
Note: do not have pre-typed emails, they do not work. Emails / real life communication by the player is more natural and convincing as HE is promoting the game, not YOU. (Would you listen to a friend telling you about a game and saying if you use his code, you get a prize, OR would you listen to a pre typed email whose only sign of personalisation is Dear "*name*"?)
This way, A will promote the game to get the prize,
B will sign up because A genuinely recommends it and because he will get a prize,
A will convince B to continue playing so he can get the bigger prize.
Note: Z should be long enough for someone to understand the rules of the game, add a day or two. If it is too long, it will not work!
For bonus marks: have the signup prize for B a surprise. have the prize for A when B signs up as a multiple choice prize: (200 gold / 1 gun/horse/pet/etc. ) DO NOT have the big prize as a surprise!
e) when the referral progam is in full swing, email the 2nd top game ranking site and ask them if they would like an exclusive interview with you.
This email should be like the above email. Make it personal and friendly. Stress that it is exclusive, aka, you will not be able to post it anywhere else and that many players in the game would like an interview.
f) local paper - do not do it: it will attract an unwanted audience, and it maycause a large infux of inactive.
g) Do not advertise at all!!!!!! - This seems weird but it saves money, and it will work out in the long run.
Do nots:
Post on FB,
make a FB account for the game (psychological research says it is bad overall)
adopt any mass referral program, only a player-initiated one which is personal
How to make money:
not ads - they do not work for both the advertiser and you
not anything - this is a close and personal system that relies on trust etc. Do not do anything to loose it. Always tell the truth: but NOT for release dates, these should be said to release a month after expected completion in case of bugs, programming complications etc.
Donations work the best & give the most amount of money in a indie game. Until the game is professional quality and has loyal fans, do not charge for membership. And when you do have membership, give honorary memberships to the most loyal ones.
Memberships should not alter anything but ease of gameplay. Aka: a longer building que, a bigger bag, 20% more exp, etc. It should not be 20% more attack or 20% more ticks.
I hope this was helpful.
Pax.
Search Engine Optimizer,
Economic sociologist,
Market Analyser &
Internet Marketer
in the making
1. Forget about business. Completely. Just ensure that you have the right to use everything on your site for commercial purposes.
Now onto part 2: Getting players
a) When there are 100- players, post exclusively on game development sites.
When 100+, send an email to the top 1,4,5,6 game rating sites asking if they "would like to include" your game in their database.
The key here is to EMAIL them and email them with the right wording:
Correct: Would you like to include *name* into your website? *name* is a recently released free-to-play PBBG which already has *** player online.
Incorret: Could you add us to http://www.*sitename*.com?
b) SEO, too complicated to explain, but make sure your blog is SEOd
For the forums, do not create one until you are 101% sure that there will be at least 5 post per day in it. Else, it actually decreases sign up rates.
c) Create a wikipedia article with a account whose username is NOT related to the game. Do not make it biased, but strictly informational.
wikipedia article = popular game
d) DO NOT USE STARTER GIVEAWAYS, instead, adopt a viral referral system:
Player A = refferer
Player B = New player
Z = *I will explain later*
e.g. When B signs up using A's code, B gets a prize. If B signs up before the end of Z days of A signing up, then A gets another prize. If B is still player a week later, A gets a bigger prize.
Note: do not have pre-typed emails, they do not work. Emails / real life communication by the player is more natural and convincing as HE is promoting the game, not YOU. (Would you listen to a friend telling you about a game and saying if you use his code, you get a prize, OR would you listen to a pre typed email whose only sign of personalisation is Dear "*name*"?)
This way, A will promote the game to get the prize,
B will sign up because A genuinely recommends it and because he will get a prize,
A will convince B to continue playing so he can get the bigger prize.
Note: Z should be long enough for someone to understand the rules of the game, add a day or two. If it is too long, it will not work!
For bonus marks: have the signup prize for B a surprise. have the prize for A when B signs up as a multiple choice prize: (200 gold / 1 gun/horse/pet/etc. ) DO NOT have the big prize as a surprise!
e) when the referral progam is in full swing, email the 2nd top game ranking site and ask them if they would like an exclusive interview with you.
This email should be like the above email. Make it personal and friendly. Stress that it is exclusive, aka, you will not be able to post it anywhere else and that many players in the game would like an interview.
f) local paper - do not do it: it will attract an unwanted audience, and it maycause a large infux of inactive.
g) Do not advertise at all!!!!!! - This seems weird but it saves money, and it will work out in the long run.
Do nots:
Post on FB,
make a FB account for the game (psychological research says it is bad overall)
adopt any mass referral program, only a player-initiated one which is personal
How to make money:
not ads - they do not work for both the advertiser and you
not anything - this is a close and personal system that relies on trust etc. Do not do anything to loose it. Always tell the truth: but NOT for release dates, these should be said to release a month after expected completion in case of bugs, programming complications etc.
Donations work the best & give the most amount of money in a indie game. Until the game is professional quality and has loyal fans, do not charge for membership. And when you do have membership, give honorary memberships to the most loyal ones.
Memberships should not alter anything but ease of gameplay. Aka: a longer building que, a bigger bag, 20% more exp, etc. It should not be 20% more attack or 20% more ticks.
I hope this was helpful.
Pax.
Search Engine Optimizer,
Economic sociologist,
Market Analyser &
Internet Marketer
in the making
Re: Age of Magic Online
1. It is a business, dont forget that. That is how all the biggest guys got to the top, amazon and google as an example where others have failed.
During the internet bubble, websites that "forgot" they were running a business were the first to fail. Lack of clear marketing plans and abuse of funds were the main reasons. Companies like amazon and google had clear marketing plans and managed the funds tightly until they were sucessful enough to start offering benefits.
2. a, b and c. I agree.
d. I do not agree at all, I have seen this work. By speaking to new players in a game and asking where they found out about the game almost 30% were from these key giveaways.
Referrals do work as well, but can more easily be manipulated. (Player's create accounts at work/home/library/internet cafe to get the rewards.) Since the items coming from the keys are not transferrable, they are not so easily abused where as the items from referrals go directly to the players account.
e. I agree.
f. There is no such thing as unwanted attention, not ever. It has been proven many times, all publicity is good publicity. ( While your marketing in the local paper may not be focused, it will attract some players. Even better is the fact it will give your company exposure which may lead to other work. )
g. I utterly disagree. Even World of Warcraft who have been going for many years and have millions of players understand there is a constant need to advertise. While you think not advertising saves you money, it actually can make you alot more then you will save IF you use highly focused and target advertising.
During the internet bubble, websites that "forgot" they were running a business were the first to fail. Lack of clear marketing plans and abuse of funds were the main reasons. Companies like amazon and google had clear marketing plans and managed the funds tightly until they were sucessful enough to start offering benefits.
2. a, b and c. I agree.
d. I do not agree at all, I have seen this work. By speaking to new players in a game and asking where they found out about the game almost 30% were from these key giveaways.
Referrals do work as well, but can more easily be manipulated. (Player's create accounts at work/home/library/internet cafe to get the rewards.) Since the items coming from the keys are not transferrable, they are not so easily abused where as the items from referrals go directly to the players account.
e. I agree.
f. There is no such thing as unwanted attention, not ever. It has been proven many times, all publicity is good publicity. ( While your marketing in the local paper may not be focused, it will attract some players. Even better is the fact it will give your company exposure which may lead to other work. )
g. I utterly disagree. Even World of Warcraft who have been going for many years and have millions of players understand there is a constant need to advertise. While you think not advertising saves you money, it actually can make you alot more then you will save IF you use highly focused and target advertising.
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hallsofvallhalla
- Site Admin
- Posts: 12026
- Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:29 pm
Re: Age of Magic Online
wow good points from both sides, nice read, gets me thinking.
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PaxBritannia
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:54 pm
Re: Age of Magic Online
I agree that the guys at the top very run like business, but they are for the masses. Also, I & a book believe they succeeded due to their clear purpose / mission statement.
In my perspective, SEO, monetisation plans, etc, are all not what defines a business. What I think defines a business is that its main aim is to earn money. So maybe I should have said "Forget about money" instead for more clarity.
Run it like a business and you'll work it like a bussiness.
d) Keys work, but are often abused. If works under the following circumstances:
There is a very limited number of them.
You do not need to sign-up or login to a site to get them (short term is actually beneficial, but there are long term negative psychological effects)
f) Although unwanted attention is attention, it can often lead to social cascades which are unpredictable and have a large impact especially if the game is new.
g) For idie games, WOTM (Word of the mouth) is alot more effective as it is personal, close, and trusted. Ads are normally mass targeted, distant, and suspicious. Relying on the community instead to spread word of it is better, but after the game has a player base, do not offer incentives for referrals. (Again psychology)
Also, advertisements have a maximum of 2% click rate. Only about .03% play long term.
Pax.
In my perspective, SEO, monetisation plans, etc, are all not what defines a business. What I think defines a business is that its main aim is to earn money. So maybe I should have said "Forget about money" instead for more clarity.
Run it like a business and you'll work it like a bussiness.
d) Keys work, but are often abused. If works under the following circumstances:
There is a very limited number of them.
You do not need to sign-up or login to a site to get them (short term is actually beneficial, but there are long term negative psychological effects)
f) Although unwanted attention is attention, it can often lead to social cascades which are unpredictable and have a large impact especially if the game is new.
g) For idie games, WOTM (Word of the mouth) is alot more effective as it is personal, close, and trusted. Ads are normally mass targeted, distant, and suspicious. Relying on the community instead to spread word of it is better, but after the game has a player base, do not offer incentives for referrals. (Again psychology)
Also, advertisements have a maximum of 2% click rate. Only about .03% play long term.
Pax.
Re: Age of Magic Online
I think that sites such as FB, myspace and twitter can be a huge pond when fishing for people to reach out to with your game.
FB and myspace (or atleast i think the latter does) have similar types of games on the site... so you know that there are people who are interested in playing these types of games (by this i mean mmo / online games). FB has groups of thousands you can appeal to... even if only a small %of them take an interest, it can still be quite a large number.
most of the games have their own forums, which alot also list thousands of email addresses on for mass friend recruiting.
twitter is good when you have a comunity following you. you can post updates of game development, events and so on, which will be seen by your followers, your followers then 'tweet' back and make a suggestion or just tell you that the idea sounds awsome... their followers then see their tweet and may take an interest at what their mate is saying 'that sounds awsome' to, have a little read and decide to take an interest.
referals i have always ben against as it is not secure enough to monitor effectvly. end of lol.
keycodes i am all for, providing that you use it in a way that cant be manipulated easily.
on the topic of membership and donations. i am a donation lover... give people the option to give back to you without feeling obliged. there is also a third option. subscriptions... although it probably comes under the same bracket as membership.
FB and myspace (or atleast i think the latter does) have similar types of games on the site... so you know that there are people who are interested in playing these types of games (by this i mean mmo / online games). FB has groups of thousands you can appeal to... even if only a small %of them take an interest, it can still be quite a large number.
most of the games have their own forums, which alot also list thousands of email addresses on for mass friend recruiting.
twitter is good when you have a comunity following you. you can post updates of game development, events and so on, which will be seen by your followers, your followers then 'tweet' back and make a suggestion or just tell you that the idea sounds awsome... their followers then see their tweet and may take an interest at what their mate is saying 'that sounds awsome' to, have a little read and decide to take an interest.
referals i have always ben against as it is not secure enough to monitor effectvly. end of lol.
keycodes i am all for, providing that you use it in a way that cant be manipulated easily.
on the topic of membership and donations. i am a donation lover... give people the option to give back to you without feeling obliged. there is also a third option. subscriptions... although it probably comes under the same bracket as membership.
New Site Coming Soon! Stay tuned 
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PaxBritannia
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:54 pm
Re: Age of Magic Online
Personally, partially due to pity and anger, I refuse to advertise on Facebook, MySpace, and Twitter.
Persons are smart, people are stupid.
People who rely on others to make their decisions are socially retarded.
FB and those other social networking sites just helps the retardedness spread. Something that you could decide by yourself, now some people post on FB for advice. The tragic convenience of the internet just makes the amount of retards increase.
Not advertising on social networking sites is just another way to try and filter out these retards from my game.
Also, I am going to put in a clause in the Terms and Conditions stating that I and any admin can ban people if they are socially retarded.
Now, referrals work, but are abused. If you can get them to work, then great.
Pax.
Sorry if anyone was offended. The word retard is used in a strictly scientific sense.
Persons are smart, people are stupid.
People who rely on others to make their decisions are socially retarded.
FB and those other social networking sites just helps the retardedness spread. Something that you could decide by yourself, now some people post on FB for advice. The tragic convenience of the internet just makes the amount of retards increase.
Not advertising on social networking sites is just another way to try and filter out these retards from my game.
Also, I am going to put in a clause in the Terms and Conditions stating that I and any admin can ban people if they are socially retarded.
Now, referrals work, but are abused. If you can get them to work, then great.
Pax.
Sorry if anyone was offended. The word retard is used in a strictly scientific sense.
Re: Age of Magic Online
you have the ordasity to call people retarded when using the phrase 'persons are smart'.... :pPaxBritannia wrote:Personally, partially due to pity and anger, I refuse to advertise on Facebook, MySpace, and Twitter.
Persons are smart, people are stupid.
People who rely on others to make their decisions are socially retarded.
FB and those other social networking sites just helps the retardedness spread. Something that you could decide by yourself, now some people post on FB for advice. The tragic convenience of the internet just makes the amount of retards increase.
Not advertising on social networking sites is just another way to try and filter out these retards from my game.
Also, I am going to put in a clause in the Terms and Conditions stating that I and any admin can ban people if they are socially retarded.
Now, referrals work, but are abused. If you can get them to work, then great.
Pax.
Sorry if anyone was offended. The word retard is used in a strictly scientific sense.
i think the phrase your looking for is 'a person is smart'
i got to admit, i think some of the stuff put on twitter etc is beyond retarded... i mean do we really care if you had eggs on toast at 7.24 in the morning?
i dont use fb as a social intervention, i use it purly as a future advertising agent and to talk to a few old school 'mates' who i havnt seen or spoken to since the day i vanished from class lol.
New Site Coming Soon! Stay tuned
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hallsofvallhalla
- Site Admin
- Posts: 12026
- Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:29 pm
Re: Age of Magic Online
i use Facebook to connect old friends and even some developers. It works well for that. I visit it only about once or twice a week. Many people are addicted to it. No different than be addicted to TV, WOW, or game development. Do what makes you happy I suppose.