Making A Game - Serious Responses Only!

[Sharlenwar]

Okay, so let me tell you my situation. My wife is ready to deliver our child somewhere around March 1st. This means that because I live in Canada, we get up to a year of paid leave. Of course this is so that we can spend time with the new child, but those of you who have kids, understand that kids sleep and there are gaps of time spread out throughout their life. So as I'm evaluating my personal situation, a very rare opportunity seems to be coming around the bend. So this means that I will get to work on something that is serious and something that I have been thinking about lately.

This is where I need your help. If you are serious and understand programming and have used various languages, game making studios, etc. Then continue on. If you have something to contribute, but not much experience, then go ahead. I am wanting some serious help as I have been mulling a bunch of ideas in my head.

Let us start, I need to setup some background information. So, I have access to a couple laptops. One is a top of the line one, another is an older one with 3d accelleration. They can handle pretty much what I need currently and have games that I play currently on Steam. I am knowledgeable with various programming languages from BASIC up to C++. So I learn at a very fast rate and usually just need pointers to fill in the gaps when I come across them. I also have a raw design in my head that I can easily put down in paper format to crystalize the information.

My dilemma is this. I have used various methods of creating games such as DarkBASIC Pro, RealmCrafter, even tried to make one in C++. I am stuck as to what direction I should take. I want to make a game that reminds me of my AD&D days. If you are unsure what AD&D is, click on it to check the link out. It is something that I grew up with, and it was before your wonderful online gaming that has ocurred and has turned in to. AD&D was like playing poker with friends around a table, just a different form of poker. So what I miss from those days are the complexity and detailed rules that could be implemented on the characters. From disease to statuses, it is amazing. I have been playing a really fun game (in my opinion) called Book of Heroes on my device. It has sucked me in and reminds me a lot of the good old AD&D days. The style of this game is special and I have found nothing that keeps me from playing it. With my child coming here soon, and a massive amount of free time available, I want to make a game that I can work on anywhere I go. I just need help as to what programming technology should I use? HTML5, MySQL & PHP, C++, etc. I understand we can use a various amount of tools and there are tools listed here. What is difficult is sifting through the crap to find the gems.

I am calling upon the experience of the community here to help me make a decision as to what am I going to use to make this game. So if you have anything to contribute, to add to the discussion, then post up and let me know. I put this into the General Development section as I feel it pertains to development of a game. Nothing specific yet, as I want to figure out what I'm going to use first and design the game based on what my limitations would be (Don't give me any crap about your imagination, etc. as that is obvious, where there is a will there is a way.) using that particular programming language, etc. Any pointers, places to go that have kick ass tutorials, etc. Then post it up.

Finally, thank you to the entire community of IR, you all are very unique individuals and have done various projects on your own. So I value any information to help me make my decision.

Thanks for your time!

[vitinho444]

Congratulations man, you will be a father!! Hope it all goes well!

Moving to the topic, well I'm no halls, no jacko, no alain, but i like to learn and I will always try to learn new things to complete projects.
I've hear about D&D but never played since im not from that time (I'm from 95). So i can't really point out a language / engine so you can create your game, but from what I've played with (Unity, C++, Game maker etc) i can say that some of them are not the best for what you desire. Every tool can make that kind of game (well most of them..) but there might be some that are better for the job. From what I read on that wikipedia topic with was a table game with strange dices and a RPG. So i guess you dont need a high quality 3D super engine for that right? So my first thought (taking note of the online part) would be either Unity or UDK. Those are the ones i played with but never got much success on the online part.

You could write your own engine for this type of game, but from what I've seen is that making an engine is hard, making an engine with multiplayer systems is harder, and to me close to impossible.

So, i apologize if my opinion is not so good, but i gave you my best opinion. Of course experienced developers will give you more.

Good luck and again, Congrats!!

[a_bertrand]

Making a true RPG is already hard by itself. If you ever tried to create your own pen & paper RPG rules you would have already discovered how hard it is to balance things out to have them fun and yet neither too easy or to hard.

Porting this to a computer is actually not easier, and may even require some tweaks. Why? Because you can hardly have "game master" decisions when a player is trying since 20 min to do something. Also, having 2 full books (or more) of rules to implement is not a small task

Beside game balance, you have also all the game content (story, quests, missions, items, monsters) to add. Even simply putting a price on the itmes and choose where a player can get them can be a challenge.

If you want to do all that, plus deal with 3D, have the content for it, the animation, special 3D effects and more, I would simply say, even for a single player game, as hobby project in 1 year time you can FORGET IT. Yes sorry, it is not doable.

Try to make a 2D RPG, not MMORPG mind you, with a small set of rules and yet fun. Engine? Code? well, here personally I choose to go to the JS road, but even C# or Java could be a good option. Pick up the language tool you are more confident with, as you have enough to deal with, without yet having to learn a new language tool.

Of course you have another option, join my project which is actually a RPG, and help me build it further.

[Cayle]

Congratz!

Oh and for the first year or so, they sleep a lot. Then they learn to walk, but are not even as smart as the family dog; so they need to be watched like a hawk for a few years.

On to the topic. My background - I am an old school AD&D guy as well. BTW - My screen nic is named after a 1980’s D&D character (a 1E dual class experiment), became my “scadian name”, when I was in the SCA and has more or less been my internet nic since the early 90’s. I was heavily into Neverwinter Nights in the early-mid 00’s; at first building modules and later playing in and building persistent worlds (PWs). When I eventually left the NWN PW scene, it was because I felt I felt restricted modding someone else’s engine.

Oh and like you, I had a year to work on my project. From 2008 to 2009, I was a stay at home dad while we, as a family, were in India. That was when I wrote the bulk of Angela’s code. When I first started out, I’d expected to have Angela written and my 3D game in alpha by the end of that year. I was still very far away from that at the end. From where I see it, you’ve got about ¾ of a man year to spend on your project.

Here are your options and the implications:

Write a mod: If your goal is to have something finished at the end of that year and are not interested in commercialization, then don’t discount mods as an option. You can re-use the art assets of the game platform and concentrate on your rules and story.

Single Player 3D Game: If you grab something like Unity and use it, it will have pros and cons. You won’t have to invest in workarounds, like you will with the mod; but you will have to supply the art assets. You can probably get by with buying assets from someone like arteria3d and careful use of full screen shaders. E.g. with a full screen edge toon shader and a hatch shader, you can easily achieve a visual style similar to the old, animated version of The Hobbot and LOTR; even using inexpensive, purchased art assets. Going this route could net you a smallish single player game in a year.

Single Player 2D Game: In terms of effort, would be similar to my toon + hatch shadered 3D example.

Networked Text Game (a MUD): MUDS often have amazing depth and complexity; for low dev effort. Eschewing art in favor of text lets the designers invest their time in other places. Too bad that “nobody plays text MUDs anymore”. If this was 20 years ago, it would be a no brainer. Then you’d go on to build UO, EQ, SWG, etc. All of the first gen MMOs were built by old MUDers.

A 2D or 3D Networked game: seriously, in one year you have time to build a networked game OR a graphical game; but not both. Really. Some of us here have ignored the warnings and tried it ourselves.

Something else entirely: provided you have the idea and the dev effort is feasable – This is my own route. I’m going down the pervasive game route, with a mobile augmented reality(?), alternate reality(?) (it has elements of both, but is not strictly either). Its text based. Its fantasy, but at the same time it falls into the Its Not A Game umbrella of alternate reality games. It’s also an RPG.

As far as languages go, c#, javascript, python, java, etc. etc. etc. all work.

[a_bertrand]

OOo and yes: congratulations for the baby!

[Sharlenwar]

Thanks for all of this. What you both wrote help give me an insight into things.

So the reality of it is as I have figured. It will take time, focus, dedication, and above to be able to pound something out. This game project has been a sort of pet of mine for a long time. I have been playing online games since the good old BBS days. Where you would use dial-up and connect to a Bulletin Board System, then there were very early text based games. They would use the various ASCII characters to simulate graphics. Then went into AOL where they had MechWarrior, NWN, and other crappy dial-up styles of games. Then got into Meridian 59, and from there went into Ultima Online. Then I found a whole community of people who have broken away from the main EA game into whole styles of server engines with their own script systems allowing one to create a fully complete and custom UO experience. Then went on to play EQ, EQ2, and so on. I have always dabbled in game development since the custom server engine days, and coding was something I did from the Commodore 64 days.

@Cayle: Haha, I was a DM throughout high school. I had worlds fashioned and even had a portal system for my players to use in AD&D. They could travel, meet various cultures, peoples, and they all had a blast. We did do Rifts as well, since the Palladium systems are a bit different and so I dabbled in that as well. The draw to Rifts was the weaponry and what not. Different from the high-fantasy stuff.

@a_bertrand: Well I will definitely have a look at your engine, as it is in the direction that I was looking for. I will be definitely looking at it and make some assessments.

At least you both have given me something to think about as I drive. Maybe look up some stuff on my phone while I'm in town doing stuff. Have a 100km (62 mile) drive in crappy, snowy, weather to take my wife to the doctor. So this will give me stuff to ponder, to think back through all of those years and draw from that. I have had successess and a ton of failure. I have a feeling that there is a success around the corner, and I know exactly how I'm going to do this. I'm going to make this game as to something that I would like to play and take it from that angle. Unless there is some more awesome posts up here when I check throughout the day today.

Again, thanks for the help so far.

[hallsofvallhalla]

Everyone has failure, even success, given up on something, finished something, ect.. in their lives. Remember it is not the falling that counts it is the getting up. I often do not finish projects and that doesn't bother me a bit because I have learned soooo much from the journey. It also makes the few projects I do finish that much better. So my advice to you is not worry about what you think or know you can or can't do. Do not fret about time lengths either. Concentrate all that energy on the game instead.

Capturing the essence of the old D&D sessions has been tried by so many people. Those sessions are like a old muscle car. 20 years ago they were great. However when they are gone they are gone. You never end up being able to buy them back once they are gone. Instead you buy another one but then you realize how uncomfortable the car was, no AC, gas hog. The key is buying a newer car and giving it the same feel the old muscle car had. Sure it is not as kewl but it gets the job done.
Don't try to buy back that old car. Instead build a new one but better. Take the things you like, sleek style, fast motor, and give a new car those features.

As I get older and build my career I have found more happiness than I could ever imagine. Never really thought I would still be alive at 35 to be honest. I can blame my children and GF for all this. I would not trade it for a second. Sure I do not get as much time as I use to to work on games or for myself but it is worth it all. Enjoy this time with your family and the down times where you can work on a game. They will come more and seldom and seldom

I am currently working on a 3D webGL multiplayer game. Building a 3D multiplayer RPG through the browser basically. Been a lot of fun. Hope to show something off soon.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do and remember to not sell yourself out for what you really want in a game. Plan and build it, simple as that. Also take note that nearly all indie games today that have done well were custom built. No engine or tools. It is frustrating to work with someone else's stuff. If you can build it from scratch I recommend going that route. Sure it takes more time and may not be as pretty but it will usually end up the way you want because you built it. Use libraries to give you the features you want. Nothing wrong with using an engine though either.

Congrats on the Baby!

[leruman]

Interesting theme

First congratulation on baby Based on experience of other parents i am not sure how much you will be able to stay awake when baby get to sleep. And if you get lucky and get baby that are easily awaken, it will be fun

Now on the game. I am one of these generations that played AD&D 2 ed on the table. If you try to revive that spirit of table play i think that will be very hard, as Hall already mentioned. We used play session to talk of much other things, joke, not just play game, you can not recreate in online setting.

I had not so good experience with implementation of rules for game i am making. I did one game following halls video tutorial. Then wanted to add something, had to change lot of game just for one addition. In the end got frustrated and stopped with actual programing. After that started defining the rules for game, what features i want in game, graphic style etc. After i finish with this step, i will go to programing.
My advice si to first have completely clear idea what you want in game , which rules you will use, type of graphic, then you should go to decide about programing language and type of game web desktop, android or something else.

[Sharlenwar]

I think some of you are missing the point. This was meant to be directed towards the technologies out there and which one would be the most effective to use for my situation. I have pretty much decided the route, and have an idea of what to do to implement things. I did go through Halls' tutorial for the PBBG and will probably go through it again to refresh my memory. That will be my launching pad. This week is my plan to work through that from the start again. I will use the code that I have formulated from it, and will carry on.

As far as the coding, I want to do this game through the browser for sure. That is a must. I am leaning towards a classic browser style game. I am going to have a look at some engines, but I am probably most likely going to have to create my own from scratch as the features I am thinking about will require everything to be designed from the ground up. Plus it is better that way. As far as completing the project, this is more of something that I want there to work on. Completion would be a working game with all the systems as planned and functioning. Then it is a matter of scaling it up.

Anyways, I have pretty much begun working on this and have come back into this game development stuff. I certainly have missed it!

[Jackolantern]

For me, the higher technology used in a game, the further the experience gets from table-top RPGs. The closest I have ever had to feeling like the old AD&D days was playing the MUD Achaea. It was all text-based, and roleplaying was required, so you had to really think out your character and the way you were going to interact with the world. Even with no graphics I felt much more immersed than in most next-gen level RPGs. Sadly, though, I have heard that roleplaying has taken a back-seat to money in Achaea (you really can't punish paying customers for playing how they want to play within typical rules of an MMO or they will leave), but the point still stands.