I haven't been on in awhile cause I've been making some life decisions as of late and one in particular I'm hoping you guys could help me resolve.
Recently, I've made a decision to take my programming skills to the next level and I'm seriously considering on going to college for a computer science degree so if the game industry doesnt work out I still have a degree that can get me other places as well.
I'm also considering on if I decide to go off to college for this which is a good one to go to preferably online courses? I've already checked out two colleges, Full Sail University and DeVry University and out of the two Full Sail looks more along the lines of what I'm aiming for but, I was curious to see if you guys had any better places to suggest or check out.
Any opinions are greatly appreciated...THIS IS MY LIFE GUYS!
A friend and me will be attending Full Sail in a few years. It seems to be one of the better colleges with game development courses. Plus, my friend's dad has a house out there me and him get to stay in while we go there
I haven't looked at Devry much, but from what I've heard about the two I'd definitely go with Full Sail.
When I was originally looking at schools, I first checked out Devry, and actually went all the way to the final signature before backing out and I am glad I did. The school costs like the dickens, and the quality of the education is not 8x better than any other university, like the price would make you think.
I have heard good things about Full Sail. Another very expensive school compared to most other universities, but at least they are pretty respected. Just don't do a game programming degree, because the curriculum is not standardized. Instead of choosing which role you will go in to, they give you a sampling of every part of game development, which typically has students leaving without the required knowledge to work specifically in a role. Most game studios I am aware of are still typically hiring CS graduates. Maybe you could get a CS degree, and then lump on a non-degree game programming course here and there when you start feeling burnt out to help keep your interest up, and to also learn some of the specifics of game programming.
And I would also suggest to not take the courses online if at all possible. I just think you are robbing yourself of a lot of the benefits of college by taking it online. It is more difficult to ask questions, which can make you feel more timid to ask about the small things, it is much harder to stand out in online courses (which can hurt you if you ever need a couple of letters of recommendation), you can lose out on a lot of potentially profitable networking, etc. And with most schools you pay the exact same amount as someone attending to basically just watch some online videos and submit some school work through a website.
Devry is WAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWAYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWAYWYAYAYAYW AYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWAYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAY WAYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWAYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAA YYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWAYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWAYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWAYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWAYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAW YAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWAYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWAYWYAYAYAYWAYWAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWAYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYWWAAAYYYAAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYWYWAYWAYWAYWYAYAYAYWAYWYAWYAWYAYWAYWYAWYAYWAYW way way way over priced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Honestly, Full Sail is also waaaaayy overpriced. I went there for about a month (Entertainment Business), and it didn't seem to be half as awesome as it was advertised as. I just felt that, for the price that I was paying, I would be better off bankrolling my own game. i'd get more experience, have interesting networking opportunities and in the end may even get a nice monetary ROI.
The facilities were nice, though.
If you want to be a Game Programmer, your best bet is to ultimately get the CS degree.
If you want to talk to someone who finished the Graduate Program there not to long ago, who has a pretty good idea of what the program is like there (he is also an Associate Producer at id software) Then stop by the chatroom at the Gamedev Stack Exchange, guy you are looking for is Ari Patrick. http://gamedev.stackexchange.net
My buddy works for a large corp as a programmer. He spent $50k+ to get his CS degree. His cubicle mate is also a programmer making the same amount of money. He self taught himself to program, no school, no debt. He started at the bottom of the chain in the company at a early age. He is 3 years younger than my friend who went to college. The 4 years he would have spent in college he spent at the company getting senority, moving up, and learning to program.
Yeah, never let school stand in the way of your Education. But for most people, teaching themselves is just not possible. But there are still benefits to the College Education that are a bit harder to get on your own. Autodidacticism is not without its weaknesses, and remember if you have to deal with recruiters they usually don't know whats necessary they are just checking off a list.
But that comes around to my point, instead finishing at Full Sail I put that money to doing something else that would be relatively as (Although IMO so far it has been far more) useful than it its cheaper and if it comes down to it would accomplish the same thing that finishing would have in far less time.
Also, just getting the degree in this day and age is useless. Get internships, co-ops, enter contests on campus maybe even hold down a relevant full time job.
And Cubicle Mate? That sounds like hell.
Last edited by Noctrine on Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As a general rule, any field that is "applied", such as programming, will favor experience over education in regards to how quickly you'll see advancement. Any field that is based in theory (e.g. management, administration) favors education over experience, and usually you'll see advancement slower in the short run but have a higher ceiling over someone with little/no formal education.
So if you want to be the guy making the game, then any applied education you can get will benefit you more than theory education (i.e. real world problems vs. hypothetical/non relevant) in the short run.
Having worked with lots and lots of really good techie guys (several that have gone on to work in prominent positions for big companies like Adobe, Ebay, etc), I can say the vast majority of them did not have degrees, but every single one of them wishes they did simply because after 10-15 years slinging code around in the trenches, you eventually want to elevate yourself to a position that oversees the operations.
I was in a similar position as you back in the day. I went to school because I thought it was what I was supposed to do and I didn't really know what I wanted to do at the time. Come to find out I was interested in web/technology related things. When I graduated, I went to work for a tech company, found out I was one of only a few employees that had a degree, and naively thought I was "the shiz" for having a degree over these guys that didn't. In reality, I was 4-5 years behind all these guys that were already 2-3 years younger than me. So in the short run, I was making less and required lots of on the job training since college teaches you very little "applied" and a whole lot of theory. However, six years later, I was managing all those guys that were initially ahead of me, and they had effectively hit their ceiling at the company with their only opportunity of advancement coming from changing companies.
So the moral of the story is, there are very few circumstances where a college education isn't going to be a bigger benefit than a hindrance for you. Maybe not in the short run, but almost certainly in the long run. Not many programmers I know still want to be doing the same thing at 40 and 50 that they were when they were 20-30. So the natural path is advancement, and for advancement, you'll generally want the piece of paper that says you paid your dues when you were 18-22.
Whether or not Full Sail/Devry are worth it, I can't say. I looked briefly at their web development program, which didn't appear to teach anything that an ambitious individual couldn't learn on their own with a few good books, a few good forums, and a good work ethic at 1/100 of the price. Maybe their game development program is better though.
Yes, Full Sail is insanely expensive as well (more so than Devry, I think), but I also believe they have a better reputation than Devry. However, in the end, are you going to get 8x the benefit vs. a regular university? Probably not.
And as for getting a programming job being self-taught, good luck these days. I spent 6 years trying to get a basic, entry-level .NET or Java programming job without a degree. I showed them code that may have been better than what half of their analysts were producing (I taught the technical interviewer a couple of things on more than one occasion during an interview), but I got passed over every time. It was a dog fight just to get into an interview to begin with. Getting a real programming job with no degree is really a thing of a past, sadly. The only hope of doing it today is to learn a language that you can get a professional certification in, such as Microsoft .NET technology or Java, and just lead heavily with what credentials you can produce, and try to downplay formal education. And come with some serious A-game code in your portfolio, because you will have to blow the graduates out of the water. And as has already been said, your ceiling is going to be very low. Maybe someone else could have a bit more luck with it than I had, but the cards are all stacked against you. You don't want to know how many times I heard "This is really great stuff, but...no degree? Sorry".
Me: 
