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Hello Indie Resource!

I make this topic, because I need some answers and opinions.

Many of us, we are creating browser games, rpg, rts etc .Many companies like Gameforge are do same thing but what I don't understand, why everytime same story ? Why all is resumed at some clicks and all is different by design ?

An example: You play an RPG game, you choose your class, and you have a lot of spells..let's say one of the most popular : "Fireball" .

All games are played with a forced choice during the gameplay. Why I must choose what I wan't to be 4ever in that game? Why I can't make my character during the gameplay, maybe I want to be a wizard , but I want to use a sword, my meele damage will be weak, but will be, and spell damage as base damage. All character traits came from what I do during the gameplay.


Another problem, why everytime the same spells/talents/actions system ? Example : "X sent a fireball to Y, Y is falling..." . Is not monotone or I am idiot ?
Why not something like this, less cartoon animes and more reality like : "If you want to cast this curse on your target, you need the following items: A parchment, wolf blood and the incantation from Book Of <...> . The book is very rare, you must search it in <Location> but take care, is protected by <...> . Accept quest?"

Another thing what makes me sad are the forced actions. Example: I speak with an NPC, i can just buy or sell to him, but why I can't steal from it ? Why I can't tell him a joke or something like this lol Everytime, everywhere in every game I found the same things, this is sad. Or, maybe I play a strategy game and I want to set the camp before launch the attack, yes of course , I can't , every game is like first. Nothing new!

Is not enough for you ? For me yes, sorry.

Well, I really want your opinion about this, thanks.

Well, that's exactly the reason why i came to this business. I want to make games that you are presented a various list of choices, as free as i can code it. But people seem to like the "one-way" games... That's no fun..

In my games i always work on post-game-customization, so players can customize as much as they want or as much as i can code
I think this "one way" thing comes from programming.. because if it isn't there already.. it won't show up, if it is, then it is pre-determined... Paradox for you

vitinho444 wrote:Well, that's exactly the reason why i came to this business. I want to make games that you are presented a various list of choices, as free as i can code it. But people seem to like the "one-way" games... That's no fun..

In my games i always work on post-game-customization, so players can customize as much as they want or as much as i can code
I think this "one way" thing comes from programming.. because if it isn't there already.. it won't show up, if it is, then it is pre-determined... Paradox for you

Well, lol thanks ! For a moment I thought I was the only one with this opinion. Exactly my friend! If we don't try to come with something new, we will just lose time.

Honestly a lot of what you are describing is the difference between "sandbox" games and "theme park" games. Most of the things you don't like seem to be the "theme park" style, which is definitely the more popular style right now. WoW, Everquest, about 95% of all free-to-play MMOs, etc. are all theme park oriented. Sandbox games gives you a choice of where you want to go, what you want to be, and what you want to do. There is not typically a progression line, and characters tend to advance horizontally instead of vertically (i.e., you get more skills and different choices, but you don't specifically get more powerful; a new player could actually join a player who has been playing for months and meaningfully add to the group, but they won't be able to do as varied of actions). And while it isn't a rule, sandbox games tend to be classless, where your character is shaped by the actions you take. Some noteworthy sandbox MMOs include Ultima Online and E.V.E.

And then the inevitable question of why there are about 50 themepark RPGs for every 1 sandbox. That also ties into the answer of why you keep seeing the same things over and over. And that is because games are costing more and more to make, and commercial publishers and getting less and less likely to try something new. They have to keep to the safe bets because 1 bad game is now so expensive it could break them. World of Warcraft's success basically created the mold going forward because that is now the safe bet.

It is pretty sad, but it is empowering for indies

Ehehe thank very much now i understand ) . So, we have a big chance to release great games and to f*** them right ? :d

Haha, you could look at it that way

I look at it that we have an opportunity to offer an alternative. There are players who will only buy the big AAA titles each year, but for every handful of them, there is at least 1 who is looking for something different and unique

That give me a strong motivation to continue my project . I am proud when a game is released by a freelancer because is like a message for big companies, a message like this : "We can do it, doggy , we pee on your money!" .

Very true!

Jackolantern wrote: There is not typically a progression line, and characters tend to advance horizontally instead of vertically (i.e., you get more skills and different choices, but you don't specifically get more powerful; a new player could actually join a player who has been playing for months and meaningfully add to the group, but they won't be able to do as varied of actions).

I think this is the reason right here why most game companies do not make sandbox games. I was playing WOW with my wife one day and she ruined my experience. She pointed to one of the strong guys in the game and said the only real difference was that he had put a LOT more time into the game. I know there is some skill involved in WOW but really it is more about the social part and how much TIME you have put into the game. For a game that is on a monthly payment program, the requirement of putting time into the game to be powerful is a good marketing gimmick. Isn't it?

Oh, most definitely, and it is the reason why MMORPGs got so huge and loved by the game industry as well. However, a great sandbox MMO can suck people in as well, and I think in a much more moral way. People are playing because they have become immersed in their character, the world around them and the social order of the game. These are the reasons that game companies love to claim players are playing their themepark MMOs, but it is really because they are high-tech Skinner boxes simply fueling addiction.

The major downside of sandbox MMOs, though, is that they don't hook people right away. In fact, the first 10 - 20 hours of a sandbox MMO are often hallmarked as being confusing, disorienting and boring. Some players admit that they had to force themselves to keep going just to find out "what to do". This is obviously going to translate into quite a few trial subscriptions not being converted into monthlies for subscription-based games, or a lot of two-hour-and-uninstalls for free-to-play games. Of course this is going to be a problem for game publishers who are trying to make up large debts on the development of the game.

I would love to see sandbox MMOs make a comeback. Even if I wouldn't really play an MMO again, I think the variety and creativity to the gameplay would be great to watch unfold again, like when MMOs were first finding their way in the late 90's and early 2000's.