Monster battle calculator

[Jackolantern]

Looks good so far! Do you have a system for "to-hit", to get stats involved on whether or not the player or monster will hit their target, and if the attack is critical?

[hallsofvallhalla]

I absolutely love battle math and game algorithms. My favorite thing about game design. I love reading others as well so thanks for posting.

[Jackolantern]

Same here, but I have to say I don't really like the trend in commercial MMOs right now where many of the calculations are transparent. For example, in WoW and most games that followed it, you know exactly what you are getting for each stat point, and tooltips will even tell you how each piece affects your output. In Final Fantasy XI, the calculations and stat and effect bonuses were quite mysterious. Gear would say +2 Intelligence or something like that, but only through experimenting could you really tell what you were getting out of it. Then there were even more puzzling bonuses on gear like "+1 Sneak Attack", but with no explanation of what that means. There were debates going on for some time about what it actually gave you lol.

While that seems like an archaic, poor system, it had some great benefits in my opinion. For one, it kind of cut out parts of the overly-competitive mindset that plagues games like WoW that make the games hard for new players to break in to. In WoW, other players know exactly what your damage or healing output are, and you are constantly compared to other players in the group and/or others they party with ("LFM rogue 2600 dps+ only"). Competitive players basically become bean counters, with everything coming down to the numbers. Many players installed damage meter plugins and scolded players if their average dps dropped even for a few seconds. In FFXI, even if you wanted to play that way, you couldn't. You could only make a passing estimate of how powerful someone's gear was. Second, it made people talk in-depth about the game, and experimenting with gear and setups became a whole alternate activity in the game. Rumors about hidden gear effects, possibly hidden stat effects and pro/con conversations could go on for weeks on the forums, and the fact that there never was a definitive answer leveled the playing field between hardcore players and newcomers alike.

Eventually some formulas were reverse-engineered (and some of them were quite complicated), but keeping those formulas tucked away on powergamer message boards still kept the bean counting out of the game

[Callan S.]

I want you to be able to face 3 monsters before you need to use potions.

Players have 4 hitpoints.

Each monster costs 1 HP to defeat.

I mean, if you definitely want something to happen, can't get more definite than that.

Otherwise it's a question of how much you want random chance to to disrupt the basic 3 monsters=1 potion pattern.

Do you want random chance to disrupt that - what are you trying to add to your game by having it? Or is it legacy design - you're having random attack rolls, because that's what everyone else has done?

In terms of what Jack is talking about, I'd be tempted to simply set up a mega GM position, instead of trying to obsfucate a formula. Master console reports players are attacking the shadow realms - okay, CLICK, stealth + items gives more of a bonus to combat rolls this week. And so on, lots of arbitrary GM decisions. Let 'em try and figure out that nonsense!

[hallsofvallhalla]

i agree with the transparency. I would much rather have some mystery involved with my stats and the stats of equipment I am using. I always loved when playing some pen and paper D&D when I would have a DM that would not tell you what items do, or keep you in the dark about random things. If you did not have a some kind of Detection spell or skill you were guessing if that gauntlet you are putting on is cursed or not

[Callan S.]

Players have 4 hitpoints.

Each monster costs 1 HP to defeat.

nice,

I wasn't being sarcastic - as I'm looking at it, you want a certain thing (3 monsters cost 1 heal potion), then you have a complex formula that might very well mess up what you want.

I think I'm trying to work with your goal in mind (ie, 3 monsters cost 1 heal pot) when I say I don't know why you're making the formula so complex? If I knew why it has to be complex (instead of, say, one monster costs 1 HP to defeat), then I might go 'Ah, I know what you're getting at!'

[Corinthius]

I agree that the current convention of precision point systems (.I.E., Systems which reveal exactly what each additional skill point or bonus does) is one which leaves little to the imagination. The main aspect of any game, no matter how powerful your mechanics are, is the community which inhabits it. From the last couple of years working within this industry and it's market, I can definitely attribute the downfall of many games to the community (as harsh as this sounds on players.)

However, the community who inhabit the game are as a flock of sheep is to a shepherds tactics. If you get the foundation right and implement systems which reflect what kind of community you want, then you are bound to be successful if your mechanics are as equally planned.

If you want players who spend a lot of time on your game, planning "pure" characters and mindlessly grinding to gain said pure-characters then you should reveal as much information about attributes and how the user can precisely upgrade each contributing factor, on the other hand - if you want a world which is rich in lore and therefore you want to draw their attention away from the figures and super-competitive nature of point-pushing, then you should leave a lot to the imagination and provide basic awareness of what some statistics do

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As with the battle calculator; it looks good! - Remember to include other attributing factors so that each battle isn't pre-won in the players head. (for example, coming up against 2 monsters of your level would instantly be a bore because you already know the outcome of the battle before it happens.) Therefore, to keep interest in battles, there should either be additional mechanics that the user needs to keep and eye on, or unexpected forces should menace their way into battles at random intervals

Consider making these "bore-battles" dual-purposed for instance, perhaps there is an additional mechanic you have planned in the future which allows players to absorb Monsters which are less than or equal to the players current level, providing some kind of empowerment or long-term addition to a "fun aspect" of the game

[Jackolantern]

If you want players who spend a lot of time on your game, planning "pure" characters and mindlessly grinding to gain said pure-characters then you should reveal as much information about attributes and how the user can precisely upgrade each contributing factor, on the other hand - if you want a world which is rich in lore and therefore you want to draw their attention away from the figures and super-competitive nature of point-pushing, then you should leave a lot to the imagination and provide basic awareness of what some statistics do

Very good points! "Bean counting" mechanics definitely do have their place, such as in games like Diablo and Torchlight, where the primary push forward in the game is character ability advancement. An action-RPG would actually be very frustrating if you couldn't accurately compare gear, skills and stats. It probably also belongs in games squarely centered around PvP and high-end competitiveness and nothing else, such as League of Legends.

But for more widely-scoped games, such as how MMORPG are supposed to be, I think some designs lend themselves to the mechanics of classic MMOs like the early years of EQ1 and Final Fantasy XI which relied on experimentation, rumors and the players pooling their wisdom.