Indie-Resource.com

Anyone with some information on it? How is the app store? Is it worth it? Do you have to jump through hoops to get a game on the market place? How is the development?

I know a fair bit about it. For games, you use XNA, and for apps you use Silverlight (both with slight modifications, of course). Like all the app stores, there are a fair bit of regulations for any app put up. It is up to you to code how the app handles receiving a call while your program is running, for example, and you must handle it gracefully. You have to pay attention to how you use the Back button so that it follows certain guidelines.

One of the nice things compared to other app stores (in particular The Apple App Store), is that they tell you exactly why the app was rejected, citing several-page-long certification guideline papers about what you need to correct. The Apple App Store is notorious for blindly rejecting apps and never explaining why, basically killing the app since you have no idea how to fix it.

I have not gotten any finished apps up on it, so I don't know how well they sell or if it is worth it. There is less of everything on the store: less users, less apps, etc. That can be a good thing compared to how hard it is to get noticed on the Apple Store and Android Market. In particular it is hard for an indie to get noticed on Apple. When you click to go into a category, you see only about 8 apps at a time, and those apps are determined by popularity. That means the market would quickly get dominated by AAA app developers since their games and apps are going to make the most buzz (due to quality and advertising dollars). Indie apps get lost basically from the start.

Of course WP7 is also less app-oriented than the other 2 OS'. Both Android and iOS are basically nothing but GUI shells for app icons, whereas WP7 has its own GUI separate from the apps (while you can add them as Live Tiles to the main GUI, typically they are hidden on another page). I am not sure yet how this may impact the number of people buying apps.

thanks, picking up this book as a well.

http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Windows ... 1430232161

oops meant this one

http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Phone-7-G ... gy_b_img_b

I have virtually every WP7 development book available today, and I have to say the ones I have liked the most so far are these 2 (1 for XNA, 1 for SL):

XNA: Wrox Pro Game Development for WP7
SL: Wrox Pro App Development for WP7

Don't mind the rating on the 2nd book. A couple of the ratings were horribly unfair, and I actually made comments on a couple of them. Both reviewers gave poor ratings because the books were too advanced for them, even though they admit they don't have much development experience and they ignored the "Professional" part of both books' titles.

I typically like Apress books, but in this case after reading about 1/2 of it, I just don't feel like the Apress book had a good handle on the subject. It just felt very disorganized and all over the place, whereas the Wrox books are actually making small programs to demonstrate some of the more complex subjects, such as saving game state, handling interruptions and the back button. The Apress book felt a bit too much like it was rehashing and expounding on the App Hub tutorials. Another thing to keep in mind is that right now none of these books cover the Mango update, which, while not changing the core, will be adding many new features as far as accessing the hardware APIs. The books still seem valuable to learn the basics right now, though.

Also, do you have a Windows Phone 7 phone? For right now, it is a bit harder to test without a phone because you don't have an easy way to test the accelorometer or multi-touch (the mouse only allows you one finger point at a time). I have been told non-phone testing will be getting a massive improvement with the Mango tool update, but I have not downloaded them yet since I have not put Mango on my device at this point.

i am trying to find a win7 phone. I can't find one locally so I guess I will have to order from T-Mobile.

How do you like the actual phone? How many games does it have available on the market place?

Is the Wrox a good book for a beginner? Beginner as in I have used XNA some and now learning asp.

I really like the phone. It is especially good if you are on Facebook and check it while you are out, since it has the best FB integration by far. And of course it is the only phone with a real version of Microsoft Office on it, so that is nice for work. The Metro UI is pretty cool and Live Tiles are neat, too. As I mentioned before, it is really the only phone with a real UI, since both Android and iOS are basically just shells for app icons.

It does have considerably less games than iPhone or Android, but it is not like you could ever play them all in your life. It has some good ones, and it has most of the big name games, too. But if you are an app diva, a WP7 user will feel left out in the cold. Every time apps are advertised on TV or on the web, they all support iPhone, most support Android, and almost none support WP7. I would still have to say it is the best developer's phone, though. All the tools are powerful and free, and XNA and SL make up the most complete frameworks for making mobile apps. You are starting with much, much less for the other OS'.

And the Wrox books are fine for a beginner to XNA, mobile development, Silverlight, etc. The people who gave the one book low ratings were new to programming in general, which that would not work for either book since it doesn't teach basic programming, of course

well i cant find a phone, due to its terrible sales and according to the guys at the T-mobile store the amount of returns that they do not sell them.

The guys at the store(2 different stores) told me they are terrible. He could have ordered one for $200 which is high for a 2 year contract but instead said I do not recommend it and tried to actually sell me a phone that was cheaper.

Depressingly I did not get one. I want to develop using either XNA, Silverlight, or ASP for the learning and resume additive but I think win7 mobile is out. If it is this hard for me to get one what about everyone else?

How does Silverlight and facebook work together? Is the HD7 the only phone that the VS10 mobile add on works for?

No idea why they are saying they are terrible. Likely they were just being sales people, which will commonly trash on the product they don't have, and say what they do have is the best. It has its problems, like all mobile OS', but it does some things very well, too. I would take what they say with a grain of salt. T-Mobile definitely carries Windows Phone 7 devices, and from what I have seen, they have had little problems with them (no more than other devices). All of the mobile stores are actually run by independent companies that have to make their own deals for their devices, so the case is probably that they couldn't get them for the price they wanted, and then came up with a reason to tell people why they don't have them. And they aren't expensive typically, at least for the consumer. I got my Samsung Focus for free with a contract re-up from AT&T (even though they are definitely one of the crappier carriers).

EDIT: Ohh, and he tried to steer you away from ordering the phone because he gets no commission if it is ordered from the company website. He obviously wold try to steer you towards an in-store device because those are the only ones he gets credit for. Yep, worked in one of those places, too lol.

Hmm if I`m going to be realistic, I think WP7 will not be a great success. It missed the cycle for now. Android and iOS are steamrolling. WP8 will make a return, since most people will get tired of iOS and start looking at an alternative. WP7 does not offer it as of yet, mostly because app development is not as easy as it is on Android and/or iOS.

But if you are persistent I could recommend any Nokia phone or perhaps Samsung. Both offer quality devices and if you really are getting tired of WP7, you could always install Android ( on the Samsung anyway )

On Asp.NET, that has nothing to do with app dev for WP7, it can be used for applications and thus WP7 but it`s still a web interface, so it`s not specificly created for WP7. The only 2 viable ( WP7 ) interfaces are SL and XNA. Both are considered good, and XNA has support for OpenGL (es?) I`m not sure.

But if you are keen on mobile development, I`d go with Android. It`s all Java ( all cool ) and we all know that Java kind of looks like C# ( and XNA )

Also, Android has Cocoa2D, a good helper lib for game development ( iPHone as well, btw ) but there`s much more.

@Jack: what do you mean Android is only a GUI? Android is a fully working OS. As well as iOS. Sure, it has a GUI like interface usable in Apps, but that`s a good thing. All you have to do is tell it there`s a button and the OS will create a button for you. I`m not sure on WP7 but if what you are saying is right, that means you have to program the buttons yourself. That`s all extra weight to be carried as well as the fact you have to invest more time in it (== higher prices == less sales). OH, if you want your own style of buttons in Android, that`s possible as well. You can extend the class, add your own styling and use that button instead.