Coders which don't know a for loop...

[a_bertrand]

It's incredible! It's well over 1 year we are looking for a programmer here, the salary is good even for Swiss standard (for most of the country it would be amazing), we offer a lot of advantages, like a flexible time, no stress, open to technologies and cool projects. Yet it seems IMPOSSIBLE to find programmers. We had multiple candidate which even had computer science degree which wasn't able to make a for loop!

I wonder how those people can even sell themselves as programmers.

I'm really upset, full, and annoyed with that situation.

[Xaos]

My resume is........

Those guys are probably the ones that cheated their way through their university and to their degree, and the others who don't have their degree probably know some HTML

[vitinho444]

Alain that's very normal... In my college all they care about is smoking weed all day. They cheat on exams and on group/individual works they are asking for the answers on facebook. It's the sad world we live in. But i think it's the college system fault too. I'm on a IT course (general computer science) and im learning sh*t that is useless for a programmer. Why can't they close down the GENERAL courses and start small ones that are 100% focus on one job instead of turning us into one man armies that know 10% of 10 things?

Instead of teaching us programming (we are learning OOP java which is not too bad but 90% will fail i bet ) they are teaching us circuits for telecommunications, advanced math to calculate areas and volumes etc... why that useless things? "Oh man you need some basics to know other stuff" really? I need to know electricity to know how to code.. right.

Now i REALLY hope that when i finish my degree, and the companies come and hire people they dont look at THE AVERAGE, but look at the Programming grades and that things that are really needed. Because if they look at average they can have a guy that is Ace at math and doesn't know what a for loop is.

Just my opinion. Good luck on your search

[hallsofvallhalla]

Yeah actual passionate programmers that want to do more than stare at a cubicle all day are very few and far between. I just did some interviews before accepting a new position and all the places I interviewed all were amazed on how passionate I was as everyone else they interviewed we not.

[Jackolantern]

I am pretty glad for every class I have taken. And yes, understanding electricity will indirectly make you a better programmer. You have to understand electricity to understand the lowest-level workings of a computer, and that directly makes you a better programmer.

As far as your prospect hunt Alain, sometimes during economic turn-arounds where the market is really coming back online it can be hard to find good employees. This is called a "worker's job market" because well-qualified people are at a premium. A common strategy for getting people when you need them in that market is to hire head hunters who can work at poaching people from other companies and looking for quality in places others don't think of. That may be what you have to end up doing.

[vitinho444]

I am pretty glad for every class I have taken. And yes, understanding electricity will indirectly make you a better programmer. You have to understand electricity to understand the lowest-level workings of a computer, and that directly makes you a better programmer.

I know that, there are some things that i really like to learn like how a CPU actually works, that amazed me so much, and assembly too. But circuits and tensions and power sources and blablabla can't turn you into a better programmer. And i bet that if i could translate exactly what I'm doing in my college, you would look at it as garbage...

Example (and sorry for offtopic), Djisktra Methodology. What we are doing is convert JAVA methods to the Djisktra Methodology... The basic question is WHY!!? Why can't they teach JAVA, C, C++, C#, PHP, Python, anything useful and they are teaching us how to convert JAVA methods the ones that are needed, to something that nobody uses. This is one of the many examples Jacko, there are things that we may say "wow thats useless" and it might be useful just as a trivia, but this? Cmon...

On Topic: Here in Portugal there's so many companies that are like the wolves of the market and what they do is go to every single college and find students close to finish their graduation (basic 3 years) and start hiring them. Sort of agents, then the bigger companies that actually need some work done, they need to talk to those "wolves" to gather a team and do the job. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing though.

[Jackolantern]

Example (and sorry for offtopic), Djisktra Methodology. What we are doing is convert JAVA methods to the Djisktra Methodology... The basic question is WHY!!? Why can't they teach JAVA, C, C++, C#, PHP, Python, anything useful and they are teaching us how to convert JAVA methods the ones that are needed, to something that nobody uses. This is one of the many examples Jacko, there are things that we may say "wow thats useless" and it might be useful just as a trivia, but this? Cmon...

Wait, you are talking about Djisktra's Algorithm? That is incredibly useful, and one is one of the algorithms that every programmer should know, or at least know of so they can Google it. There is a long list of names of people who have made fortunes for themselves just by applying his algorithm to a new problem. Same thing with topological sorting, which is another thing you will probably learn around the same time.

Basically, don't rush to determine what is useful and what is not yet

On Topic: Here in Portugal there's so many companies that are like the wolves of the market and what they do is go to every single college and find students close to finish their graduation (basic 3 years) and start hiring them. Sort of agents, then the bigger companies that actually need some work done, they need to talk to those "wolves" to gather a team and do the job. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing though.

I can't really see too many downsides to wolves coming out to fight over all the graduates

Just be sure to finish your degree, and don't duck-out early, even if it is a good offer. You may get to a point sometime where some employer wants you to have a degree, and there is no sense ending your education only a year or a semester short of the degree for an immediate job. It may be hard to go back years later to finish classes, and some schools even have a time limit to use undegree'd credits.

If they do get some offers early, see if one of them will pay for your school so you can finish school while also working. That is a win-win!

[vitinho444]

Wait, you are talking about Djisktra's Algorithm? That is incredibly useful, and one is one of the algorithms that every programmer should know, or at least know of so they can Google it. There is a long list of names of people who have made fortunes for themselves just by applying his algorithm to a new problem. Same thing with topological sorting, which is another thing you will probably learn around the same time.

Basically, don't rush to determine what is useful and what is not yet

Well they call it "Djisktra Methodology" and all it does is re-write JAVA methods into something more unreadable and explaining what is happening in that command by other (stupid) words. I won't do it, but its hard to actually study something that you begin thinking and seeing it as useless.. at least for me its a great moral destroyer.

I can't really see too many downsides to wolves coming out to fight over all the graduates

Just be sure to finish your degree, and don't duck-out early, even if it is a good offer. You may get to a point sometime where some employer wants you to have a degree, and there is no sense ending your education only a year or a semester short of the degree for an immediate job. It may be hard to go back years later to finish classes, and some schools even have a time limit to use undegree'd credits.

If they do get some offers early, see if one of them will pay for your school so you can finish school while also working. That is a win-win!

Yeah there's that, they go after the ones that are 1 year / 1 semester of ending and basically everyone accepts and never end the degree. I don't like to make plans for the future as tomorrow all can change, but what i think ill do is check the offers (if any) and see my current economical status, if i need desperate money, i must accept, but if i dont, i will see if i can do both at the same time, degree and work like you said, and if possible i will try, if turns out to be impossible (after accepting) i will quit the job. This is the present me talking, only the future will tell how it goes ofc

[Jackolantern]

Well they call it "Djisktra Methodology" and all it does is re-write JAVA methods into something more unreadable and explaining what is happening in that command by other (stupid) words. I won't do it, but its hard to actually study something that you begin thinking and seeing it as useless.. at least for me its a great moral destroyer.

I know what you are talking about. That is how you write algorithms, and it is another thing every programmer should know. The importance of it is that it is language neutral, and thus allows programmers using different to effectively communicate algorithms.

You will find that the entire knowledgebase of software engineering is actually half or less true coding. Learning the syntax of a language and learning how to make it do what you want is only the beginning of software engineering, not the end. I guarantee that what you are learning will not be useless Things like algorithm complexity (Big O notation), design patterns, the development process, how to create documentation, project management and other things will do you very well to know for the future!

[KyleMassacre]

Its a shame they didn't give me the job haha

Code: Select all

<?php
for($i=1;$i<10;$i++)
    echo "Kyle is " . $i ."x cooler than you<br/>";
?>

Think if I showed them that they would reconsider?