Combat Systems

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hallsofvallhalla
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Combat Systems

Post by hallsofvallhalla »

Thought we could share some links on game combat systems out there on the net for quick start or ideas.

Here is Final Fantasy VI's system
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/562865-final ... faqs/13573

FFX
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/197344-fina ... faqs/31381

interesting read
http://sinisterdesign.net/12-ways-to-im ... t-systems/
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Callan S.
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Re: Combat Systems

Post by Callan S. »

If I can add something, I've been thinking recently overall philosophy with combat systems is an element - over the dozens or hundreds of game, what point are you trying to get to, what are you trying to say at the grander level? It's something to think about in regards to design.
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a_bertrand
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Re: Combat Systems

Post by a_bertrand »

Is it ok to share our own ideas / designs instead of links?
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hallsofvallhalla
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Re: Combat Systems

Post by hallsofvallhalla »

definitely ok. I would rather here personal thoughts and designs.

I agree with the "whats the point" Too many games become button mashing or ritualistic in combat.
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a_bertrand
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Re: Combat Systems

Post by a_bertrand »

I actually implemented a few different combat systems for my various games:
NEaB at first had a "text" or simple combat system which would let you do either attack, defend or use some items. Nothing fancy and it was all just pure text. Rules where simple, yet there was a few major drawbacks:
- Ranged combat could not be implemented as you don't have a "distance".
- Multiple monsters or complex strategy wasn't working well.
- Attack speed wasn't handled well neither as it was really one after the other.

After a while, this simple "attack-protection" system which used dexterity as main stat to calculate your % of probability to hit, has been dropped in favor of what we called "strategic combat".

Strategic combat is still a turn based combat, but you are over a grid, with some objects blocking randomly placed. Multiple monsters can be spawn, ranged attacks can be implemented (as you could attack from further cells), speed too, as you could have how many cells you can move, or how many actions you can do in one turn. Overall this was working well for a single player. Multi player wasn't as nice, as it was really slow (wait turns and all).

NWE is a text game, so the combat must be in text mode. I tried there to have an "energy" to make it so that some could attack faster and other slower. Also tried to have different attack modes. However being a text mode, I didn't managed to bring the ranged attack. Definitively not a finished combat system (on purpose) due to the fact it's an engine and the owner should customize it.

For cubicverse, I decided to take the real time road, to allow better multi player battles at the end. Rules are not fully finished, but it seems to work. Some actions require either a preparation time or have a cooldown, and then some randomness of the effect is counted in.
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Cayle
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Re: Combat Systems

Post by Cayle »

Having read through the blogger’s criticisms of D&D, I’m kind of torn. His main criticism is the randomness of everything. Perhaps because I grew up under that system, I did not mind it so much. Though I should point out that there was more randomness than what you usually found in Chainmail. I have some severe criticism of the D&D combat systems (plural, they differ among versions), but they are different. His fixation on THACO was interesting. I’m a 1E grognard. Tables, Man, Tables! Like they did it in Chainmail. Oh and the DM had those tables behind his DM screen. THACO came into 1E informally via the original Dragonlance modules and was finally codified into the rules in 2E. Ok, it was a wonky, reverse system and 3E’s BAB is a more understandable approach.

My biggest problem with D&D and its derivatives is that it adds power exponentially, or geometrically, or whatever. A low level character may get a lucky shot – and it was the lucky and unlucky shots that bugged the blogger’s craw – but normally, the outcome was coldly determined by level and build. Now level and high level players simply can’t play together in any meaningful way.

I’m a roleplayer and even when I’m not roleplaying, I can appreciate story and tension. This kills tension. Let’s take an archypical story. Stranger comes into town and sits down at a bar. Local thug picks a fight with him. Stranger beats Thug. Future drama is set up between Stranger, Thug (who wants revenge) and Thug’s boss. Now, let’s consider how this happens under a D&D style rules system. Since Stranger is new, let’s presume that he is freshly created; even if the player is an old hand. Thug picks a fight and quashes Stranger like a bug. There was never any competition, drama or uncertainty. Thug is 1000x more powerful than Stanger. End of story.. Perhaps in a few months, after leveling up enough, Stranger is ready for a rematch, but uggghhhhh… by then the drama is gone.

My Original Design:
I had a pretty unconventional combat system in mind, back when I first built Angela. My goal was to make combat and spellcast like 3 dimensional chess and put a premium on player knowledge; while not completely abandoning avatar capital or requiring button mashing. At the time, I was planning on using a shooter engine (Torque) and have realtime, collision based combat. But rather than it being a button mashing fest, I broke up actions into their smallest atomic elements. These could be strung together into choreographies by the player; into combo moves or katas. (In Memotica/RML, the language that Angela uses, these are called Choreographies) So I might have one for a swordsman, that is feint low and to the left, then attach high and right.

The individual actions give off stimuli. So my target player sees the low, left feint; and so does the AI. With a swordsmanship skill check, the AI might detect that it is a feint.

Choreographies can have logic branches as well. A character might go into a defensive posture and wait for a stimulus. If the feint/strike combo comes, he might make a counter move. If he detects that it is a feint, he might wait until the real strike comes and then launch a counterstroke. If he fails to detect that it is a feint, he might be caught out by the actual strike.

The current Approach:
Well, Magicus Occultus is text based; but it is also geo-coordinate based. This means that unlike in node based text games, it has a coordinate system. It uses Angela, so choreographies and logic branches are in; it is just of the spellcasting/counterspelling variety.
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Callan S.
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Re: Combat Systems

Post by Callan S. »

Thug picks a fight and quashes Stranger like a bug.
What's deciding that fight is whatever system is used to determine how powerful the opponents are. The outcome of the battle is decided even before the first blow is struck, by that system.

Avoid systems that determine the outcome of battles before they are even played out.

Also check whether you are okay with the main characters losing.
heimrahl
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Re: Combat Systems

Post by heimrahl »

Very nice, im just about to start working on some combat mechanics for my turn based game and this is a perfect read for me atm, thanks alot halls!
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