MMORPG discussion + an idea

[zinroc]

Hi Indie Resources,

I've been following Hallsofvallhalla's tutorials on-and-off for years and am a big fan. I'm not a programmer and don't think I'll every be super talented in that regard, but through your tutorials I've had a blast turning small game ideas into reality. I'm also not a professional game designer, just an enthusiast.

I'd like to open a discussion surrounding an idea I've been crafting for quite a while now. It has to do with high fantasy MMO's so I'll open with the issue I see with this genre in the modern day:

Clone MMO's:

Player Experience
I'd describe clone MMO's as WoW type games. You start as an off the shelf character, and then grind it through a pre-determined path (usually described as a PVP or PVE path) and make one more clone in a world filled with them.

Motivation
Any "motivation" for what you are doing is purely flavour text. The goals and reward system of horde and alliance are the exact same, neither cares about stopping Arthus, they just want to beat the boss and get the loot.

Reward System
PVE = kill and loot, PVP = Kill and rank to unlock loot

These limitations are well known and have motivated the "next generation" of MMO's.

Next Generation MMO's
(examples are Eve Online, Pathfinder, Wurm, Mortal Online and a whole bunch more I'm sure you're familiar with)

Player Experience
The player usually starts with an off the shelf character with a continuum of possibilities that they can do. The items, structures, economy and factions of the world are player run. The player can actually become a significant power in the world and shape it.

Motivation
The game usually claims allow the player to "do whatever they want to", but the mechanics and reward systems of these games always boil down to two types of goals: economic and military domination. Essentially everyone has the same continuum of variables to play with (resources, player diplomacy, region control, military strategy) to achieve "world domination" and all (logical) conflicts in the game come from rival groups perusing this goal (ignoring griefers).


My concern

These games are very interesting from a gameplay/game design point of view, but my concern is that it seems like a lot of game developers are seeing this concept as the "finish line" in terms of what the ultimate MMORPG will be.

The core of my dislike for both types of MMO's (and tabletop games for that matter) can be boiled down to this question:
Why is the only difference between playing an Orc and Elf character the flavour text and a few abilities?

3rd type of MMO

My idea of a more interesting MMO is a "next gen" type MMO with factions that have completely different game mechanics, reward systems and goals. This creates a society simulator that answers questions more interesting than "what's the best way to dominate the world?".
The high fantasy universe lends itself to this type of game because of its very different races.

For more on my idea see here:
http://indie-resource.com/forums/viewto ... =35&t=7379

[zinroc]

here is the topic I think I'm trying to get a discussion around (not limited to this):

1) High level MMO design and the different types of MMO's

- I offered my idea as the example for the 3rd type (I don't know any existing ones), but if you can think of another game that works this way please let me know!

[Xaos]

Yeah, if anyone knows a game like this, let me know, cause I'd play the **** out of it. No joke. I love games with player based economies and I love all of the ideas posted here. No joke. HOWEVER. There are snags. How do you prevent the game from getting boring? Are you going to have a story-line? Or story events? Or nothing? Are there going to be wars, sides, etc.? How are you going to make the economy balanced? How would you differentiate the economies of the species? Are all species together in one land, or do they all have their own states? Are there going to be governing bodies? What prevents a barter economy over anything else? Is the project too big? Lots of questions here, but I FREAKING LOVE THE IDEA, dude. Infact, I've been toying around a game like this in my head. I'd love to help if you'd like, PM me if interested even if for ideas and a second opinion on stuff, otherwise I'll just keep responding here

[zinroc]

EDIT:
moved discussion of my specific game to:
http://indie-resource.com/forums/viewto ... 797#p58797

[Xaos]

Hi Xaos!

I'm really busy today, but I promise I'll get to all of your questions (maybe not today).
A lot of them have to do with how to world is structured, so I think this doc is a good starting point:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IZm ... sp=sharing

It's a Theogony of the world written from the prespective of a high elf (very much a narrative, not a game design doc, but I still think it'll be useful). Some of your questions are answered there, and future explainations of mine will be easier to understand after reading that doc.

As for "is the project too big?";
Short answer, yes.
Longer answer: I'd like to get the barebones of the game made (the two core mechanics, target system and action point system) and make it easy to create new actions. Also, make a fully functioning human town (with most of the planned attractions) with a border of "boundary conditions" that simulate what/who would be coming in/out of the town if the world was fully created. This would be a "tech demo" of how to world would work. This would hopefully peak enough interest to get more game designers on board and creating new actions, regions, etc.

On that note, I'd take any help I can get!

From the technical side my current question would be: what tools / language I should use for creating this type of game? (I'd prefer not to put in hours of work just to realize the tools I'm using are too limited and can't do what I want efficiently)

From the game design side: I've put a lot of thought into this game and have therefore developed a bias that it is "fully formed" (i.e. it has a sustainable economy, power system etc, interesting game play, etc.), but I do want this belief to be stress tested. It would suck to put in a lot of work just to realize that a core concept is broken.
And brand new gameplay ideas are also welcome!

Well, if it's purely browser based which I assume it is, PHP is good, Javascript, Node, etc. all work.