Energy in PBBGs?

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Crawling Chaos
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Energy in PBBGs?

Post by Crawling Chaos »

Hello, I've been working on designing my first project and one topic I'm specifically stumped on is whether I should "Energy" or not, energy in terms of moves per day or actions per day that sort of stuff. I wanted to gather your opinions on it and see where I should go from there. My first game is fantasy themed by the way. :P Any opinions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
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Xaos
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Re: Energy in PBBGs?

Post by Xaos »

Ugh god these games are so annoying. They create a disconnect and drive users away and it turns into log-in once a day, do this for 10 minutes, log out and repeat, which isn't good, IMO.

Just my opinion.
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Callan S.
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Re: Energy in PBBGs?

Post by Callan S. »

As a more upbeat reply, perhaps use 'Adventure Points' or something like that.

Also keep in mind that mechanics like energy points aren't always needed.
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Jackolantern
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Re: Energy in PBBGs?

Post by Jackolantern »

Don't do the "limited moved per day" thing unless it really, really fits your model. The only reason those types of games are seen all over the place is because they lend themselves so well to microtransactions. You run out of energy just a tiny bit away from that new item or level, and figure "well, a few more points is only a dollar, so why not?". I have always found that to be manipulative and one of the reasons why free-to-play games are gathering such a bad name.

Not that that is what you were planning, but that is mostly why those types of games exist.
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Crawling Chaos
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Re: Energy in PBBGs?

Post by Crawling Chaos »

Jackolantern wrote:Don't do the "limited moved per day" thing unless it really, really fits your model. The only reason those types of games are seen all over the place is because they lend themselves so well to microtransactions. You run out of energy just a tiny bit away from that new item or level, and figure "well, a few more points is only a dollar, so why not?". I have always found that to be manipulative and one of the reasons why free-to-play games are gathering such a bad name.

Not that that is what you were planning, but that is mostly why those types of games exist.
Exactly, I hate those kind of games. :x I will most likely not have this feature because I myself have always hated it.
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Jackolantern
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Re: Energy in PBBGs?

Post by Jackolantern »

Crawling Chaos wrote:
Jackolantern wrote:Don't do the "limited moved per day" thing unless it really, really fits your model. The only reason those types of games are seen all over the place is because they lend themselves so well to microtransactions. You run out of energy just a tiny bit away from that new item or level, and figure "well, a few more points is only a dollar, so why not?". I have always found that to be manipulative and one of the reasons why free-to-play games are gathering such a bad name.

Not that that is what you were planning, but that is mostly why those types of games exist.
Exactly, I hate those kind of games. :x I will most likely not have this feature because I myself have always hated it.
Design the kind of game you would like to play. Yes, it is more difficult to design a game that can keep players entertained when they can play it for hours straight every day versus 10 - 15 minutes every day, but I think it is worth it.
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Callan S.
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Re: Energy in PBBGs?

Post by Callan S. »

I can totally see the point behind action points in urban dead - it's basically a kind of 'turn'. Otherwise it's like playing chess against someone who, because they spend hours at the keyboard, they get more turns than you. It makes people get roughly an equal number of turns in what is an asynchronous game.

And personally I kind of dislike the whole world of warcraft approach where you can't say 'Well, I've done all I can today' - because it would benefit you to keep grinding for hours more. But there are some people who for some reason both like increasing their characters numbers, yet have no competitive urge at all (and so they don't mind that if they log off but someone else doesn't, that that person is getting so much further ahead of them).

A limit on how much you can play lets you judge how well you did, whether you got alot done or very little today. With a continual grind game, who knows - maybe you'd get more in the next hour, maybe less? Unless you play for 24 hours a day, you are essentially being a quitter - it's like having half your action points remaining but just giving up for the day. Why quit then? Because being a quitter. Endless play models seem to revolve around folk who have no interest in whether they quit out or won at something - yet still somehow find it engaging to raise their PC's numbers.
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Jackolantern
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Re: Energy in PBBGs?

Post by Jackolantern »

I can see your point somewhat, but I still hate turn or energy-based games. They make you prioritize everything. One experiment in how you play, and it eats up all of your points for the day and you are done until tomorrow (unless you pay of course).

And it also makes an assumption that players can get immersed in the game and will actually be interested in coming back after only one allotment of points. I know many of those types of games I only played once. I was just starting to like the game, and then BAM! I am out of points. I figure I will try to remember to come back the next day, but I forget because the game didn't let me play long enough to leave an impression.
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Crawling Chaos
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Re: Energy in PBBGs?

Post by Crawling Chaos »

Urban Dead does it skillfully and it provides balance to the game. That game is great and I don't mind playing that as it's a little something to do when I'm bored during the day.

What I was looking at was a game like Torn City that makes millions a year(Not that I care about the money) but yet I simply don't understand what makes it so addicting? I can't stand the way it's made it just doesn't make any sense to me as to why millions of people play that and spend what they do on it.
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Jackolantern
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Re: Energy in PBBGs?

Post by Jackolantern »

The design of Urban Dead is one of those few games that does lend itself to that type of design. Note that I said above not to use it unless it really, really fits your model, and I think it does in Urban Dead. That is because in many ways, UD plays like an MMO board game. Your "piece" is always in the game, and no one would ever survive going AFK (you don't technically log out of the game since you stay in the world 24/7) if the zombies could just keep pounding on every barricaded door until they got in and killed you. A limited number of turns keeps the game balanced.

What I am more talking to are the scores of games where the energy or turns adds nothing to the game. The core mechanics are going out and killing monsters to get xp, gold and items. Stopping the players after a certain amount of turns adds nothing to the design besides stopping players from tearing through the meager amount of content too quickly, and trying to get money from them for more turns.
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