AngularJS

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Re: AngularJS

Postby Jackolantern » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:10 pm

I still like 100 - 200 page books that I can read in just a day or two. At least for me, the time investment is worth it since the start is a bit smoother. However, I am also done reading 700+ page books for a technology I want to use immediately (I may still read through one over time just as casual reading). You can't possibly absorb that much information considering that every page is likely showing off another method, technique, etc. And I have found that a ton of the 700+ page books eventually just start following the official SDK documentation. When they start introducing classes, and then discussing each method in said class, that is where I tap out. There are only a few exceptions that truly have that much to say about a topic without retreading the official documentation. "C# 5.0 and the .NET 4.5 Framework" is one of the few books I know of that really avoids rewriting the documentation and has unique and valuable content on each page, but it is still unapproachably long at over 1500 pages.
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Re: AngularJS

Postby Xaleph » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:26 pm

HMm yeah I dont mind reading a small book for a get-to-know-said-technology book, but the long reads I had to do for uni are over. I mean, you know the kind right? The Pearsons 1500+ books for explaining every single little aspect of whatever that book was covering.. I never found it interesting, most of the time, you could easily skip the first 400+ pages and the rest was all rereading the default documentations, somewhere along halfway of the book, you`d get the gist of a language, some niche aspects, some unique features but other then that? Boring.

I still have a stinky bottom putty load of those books laying around here and honestly? I`ve never used them again. The time it takes for me to search a book for an answer is way slower then a quick google search so most of the time, meh..

And in the cases of angular.js or backbone or whatever.. It`s a one-day-fly technology. There won`t be many books written about it, it has a purpose for a while and dies soon thereafter. Who can still remember prototype or what-was-that-particular-technologie`s name? If you need a book to explain a technology, odds are the technology isn`t that great but hey, that`s my opinion.

I`m a firm believer in just doing it, starting to set up your environment, create your first file and just start programming, you`ll get the errors along the way and be doing so, you can see how easy/hard it is to do create something within that language/tech.
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Re: AngularJS

Postby vitinho444 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:51 pm

Calm a new gen kid or wtv, but I can't really read books about programming. They are so boring to me, a little like Jacko said, they cover things like documentations, method to method, class to class, and that just kills it.

What I love, and Halls is responsible for that, is VIDEO TUTORIALS, see things in action in front of your eyes, and see how the teacher did it it's the best. Also the ability, to do as the teacher does, and see his/her reaction and comments on the run is very satisfying imo.
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Re: AngularJS

Postby Jackolantern » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:12 pm

Xaleph wrote:And in the cases of angular.js or backbone or whatever.. It`s a one-day-fly technology. There won`t be many books written about it, it has a purpose for a while and dies soon thereafter. Who can still remember prototype or what-was-that-particular-technologie`s name? If you need a book to explain a technology, odds are the technology isn`t that great but hey, that`s my opinion.


Javascript SPA frameworks definitely have a place and are useful, but I do think they can be applied too widely. I saw a tutorial a few days ago about how to get Phaser working inside of Angular, and all I could think was "Why would you want to do that?". But they are definitely needed in other aspects. Javascript was never designed to support large, single-page applications, and that shows from its lack of traditional OOP, includes and general lack of structure. As someone who has tried to make very large single-page applications with nothing more than jQuery, I can guarantee you it gets very ugly after a couple thousand lines of code, no matter what module or other pattern you use to try to keep it clean and neat. JS SPA frameworks are an attempt to bring the software engineering practices we know work from the server-side to the client-side, and I definitely think they are needed. Just not for every single thing people make with JS, which kind of feels like the way some people are getting with them, and there will be a push-back on that just like there was after the great "XML needs to be everywhere" overreach that occurred in the early 2000's.

And by the way, Prototype (and its other competitors such as MooTools) were killed by jQuery because the latter was designed better, not because the functionality wasn't needed ;)
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Re: AngularJS

Postby Xaleph » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:26 pm

Haha totally agreed. My original point stands though, angular will be replaced by something new while JS itself will remain. I do like angular and jquery. Jquery wasn`t just designed better ( it could still be improved though) it offered more functionality and a great API. The extensibility of jquery is what makes it great.

Angular on the other hand forces you in a corner, it narrows the playing field considerably forcing you in a corner. And most of the time, that`s OK because what you want is structure. So all in all, I dont mind the technologies, i`ll happily use them while they`re popular but I won`t miss them either when they get replaced.
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Re: AngularJS

Postby hallsofvallhalla » Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:34 pm

Angular is on 75% of all JS job requirements as well as used sooo much more in the industry than I ever expected. I agree there are a ton of iffy libraries that die off soon but angular is surprisingly popular in companies these days.
I eventually just went with a wiki and am writing a game with it to learn.
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Re: AngularJS

Postby Jackolantern » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:04 pm

Angular also has a huge benefit: Google runs it, and Google also runs Chrome, the most popular browser in the West. Google has said that Angular is simply a stop-gap solution, and that the "Angular Way" of templating in and extending HTML is going to become native to the browser. And since they control Chrome, they could very well make that a reality. Chrome has such huge marketshare that if they implement that, everyone else will have to implement it just to keep up.

Honestly, I have to admit I don't like Angular much. I was raised in web development to respect unobtrusive Javascript and separation of concerns, and Angular's way of mixing parts of your application into your semantic HTML just seems wrong to me. But like Halls said, it has gotten so popular that it can't be ignored anymore. I really had my hopes on Ember.js becoming the dominant framework, as I liked the way it was set up much more (it felt more like a server-side MVC framework), but it has become clear that Ember is now a niche framework, and everything else is all Angular, all the time.
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Re: AngularJS

Postby Xaleph » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:13 pm

All that could be, but truth be told, I`ve never encountered angular ever, in any website/app i`ve visited. It might be popular in the US, I haven`t seen any boards here specifically asking for angular knowledge, nor have I encountered it in an environment.. Maybe there`s a difference in what`s popular in the US vs what`s popular in the EU?
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Re: AngularJS

Postby a_bertrand » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:14 pm

I must say I started to dig into this world of JS "frameworks". Angular, Ember or Polymer. Honestly there is a lot of drawbacks. Ember has compatibility issues between the version they offer online (as in the demo) and the latest jquery which I require for signalr (end of story for ember). Angular seems alchemy at some times, and really makes things way over complicated for what it should. Finally polymer would be the one which fit more my natural way of doing things yet sadly it requires so many files that it makes me wonder how good it will be in practice.

After this first round, I'm starting to think about taking the good ideas of those frameworks and making my own.
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Re: AngularJS

Postby Jackolantern » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:49 pm

Noooo! -gasps for breath- Please...no...more...frameworks -collapses-

Seriously though, there has been an absolute glut of JS frameworks coming out. More so than I have ever seen with any other language or platform. It feels like a new one comes out literally every week (I think it is just a side-effect and a testament to the ubiquity of Javascript). There is a very good chance that someone else somewhere out there felt the same way you did and made something at least close to what you want to make. Perhaps check out ToDo MVC, a project started essentially because of the massive sea of Javascript MVC frameworks out there. They initially wanted to make the same todo list app in each framework so visitors can quickly look through the styles and mechanisms of many frameworks to decide what they want to take a closer look at, considering the number of them has made it prohibitive for a developer to download each one and toy with it to see if they like it. Be sure to not just check the "Javascript" tab, but also "Labs" to see even more frameworks, and this list isn't even anywhere near exhaustive anymore. There are so many they have publicly stated they are finding it difficult to keep up lol.

EDIT: Also check out one of the granddaddies of JS frameworks, Backbone. BB is very bare compared to most other frameworks. It doesn't push or even include two-way binding, and it really lives up to its name: it is a backbone for your application and nothing more. It does leave quite a bit up to the developer to create and wire-up, but that does make it extremely flexible. It also makes it a great base to build from, and many have done that. One of the most popular BB extension frameworks is Marionette. But if you do perhaps end up building something yourself, consider starting with Backbone. It will give you a nice starting structure that (as a bonus if you actually wanted to make it public) will be immediately understandable to many devs and include some built-in interest from the BB community.

EDIT2: Also check out KnockoutJS. It was created in the spare time of a Microsoft developer (I believe one of the guys working on ASP.NET), and so while it never was an official Microsoft product, they have always given a helpful hand to KO in Visual Studio and their documentation. It works very well with all things .NET, since it was one of the few frameworks designed from the ground-up to work with it (although it works just fine with other server-side environments as well).
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